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Author Topic: Use of the same word as noun and part of adjective?  (Read 642 times)

cranberry44

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Use of the same word as noun and part of adjective?
« on: July 01, 2018, 12:51:46 PM »
I know that one is not supposed to use the same word twice unless it has a different meaning. But is it acceptable to use the same word
if the word stands alone (and is a noun) in one entry (e.g., "Buy one today") but is hyphenated (as part of an adjective)
in another entry (e.g., "one-armed" --answer for "Type of bandit")? (I'm finishing up my 21X21 puzzle and
this kind of thing would finish it nicely.)

mmcbs

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Re: Use of the same word as noun and part of adjective?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2018, 12:59:03 PM »
I would say no. The only words that are allowed to be repeated (by most but not all editors) are the so-called "small" words, such as IN AT OF A I TO. In my opinion these should even be avoided if possible for the cleanest possible fill.
Mark McClain
Salem, Virginia, USA
https://crosswordsbymark.wordpress.com/

j88keys

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Re: Use of the same word as noun and part of adjective?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2018, 09:48:53 PM »
I would say it's fine- especially in a 21x and especially if the words are not right next to one another in the grid... ONE doesn't strike me as an ugly dupe.

mmcbs

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Re: Use of the same word as noun and part of adjective?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2018, 10:28:31 AM »
Adding one other point. Just because a word has two different meanings (BEAR, RING) doesn't mean you can repeat it in the grid.
Mark McClain
Salem, Virginia, USA
https://crosswordsbymark.wordpress.com/

cranberry44

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Re: Use of the same word as noun and part of adjective?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2018, 11:23:02 AM »
Thanks to you both for answering:

Re: j88keys reply: Sometimes I wonder when it's acceptable to "break the rules." More than once, I've seen two difficult words cross
in NYT puzzle; and Rex Parker has commented on this too.


Re: mmcbs: I fixed it to be on the safe side. I don't understand the mention of "bear" and "ring" in re: the same word with
different meanings question.

mmcbs

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Re: Use of the same word as noun and part of adjective?
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2018, 10:03:19 AM »
What I meant by BEAR and RING is that they are examples of words that have more than one meaning, (BEAR = beast or carry, RING = jewelry or bell sound), but they should not be repeated in puzzles.

I completely agree that the rule of crossing TOUGH words is often broken. I think this has to do with the editors' myopia about what is TOUGH to the average solver. I actually don't worry too much about that during construction because I tend to focus on where I would expect the puzzle to be published and try to avoid using any words that are too tough for that particular spot.
Mark McClain
Salem, Virginia, USA
https://crosswordsbymark.wordpress.com/

mmcbs

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Re: Use of the same word as noun and part of adjective?
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2018, 10:06:16 AM »
One more comment (this is something that just happened to me today). It's important to scan the puzzle's entire list of words and not just rely on the "similar" words feature. TO DIE FOR and
UNDYING LOVE constitute a duplicate that is very hard to catch, especially if not close together.
Mark McClain
Salem, Virginia, USA
https://crosswordsbymark.wordpress.com/

cranberry44

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Re: Use of the same word as noun and part of adjective?
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2018, 05:09:35 PM »
Re: "die" and "dying": You mean because they both have the same root word "die"? These are considered duplicates?
Maybe this would look "bad" in a  15 X 15; but I would think it would be OK in a 21 X 21, since these "phrases" neither
contain the same word nor have the same meaning, esp. if they're not close together?

mmcbs

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Re: Use of the same word as noun and part of adjective?
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2018, 09:19:42 AM »
Yep, DIE and DYING would be considered dupes by most editors as they are different forms of the same verb. This is not to say that they wouldn't allow them, which is their prerogative, as always. If you've ever wondered why the pay for a 21x is 3-4 times more than a 15x even though there are less than twice as many entries, one of the reasons is that it is a lot more difficult to avoid dupes in the larger grids.
Mark McClain
Salem, Virginia, USA
https://crosswordsbymark.wordpress.com/

 


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