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Constructing => General Discussion => Topic started by: sobbybobo on September 07, 2015, 01:53:33 AM

Title: Substituting The Word "And" In Place Of "&"
Post by: sobbybobo on September 07, 2015, 01:53:33 AM

I was curious if it is allowable to substitute "and" in an answer, where an ampersand is officially used, as I don't want to have answers with symbols in the grid.
For example the TV series Mork & Mindy as MORKANDMINDY.

Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: Substituting The Word "And" In Place Of "&"
Post by: mmcbs on September 07, 2015, 10:50:24 AM

If the & is part of a proper name, probably not advisable to use AND in it's place in the grid. Check the databases (here and on crosswordtracker.com to see what's been used, when, and by whom for more authoritative guidance.

Title: Re: Substituting The Word "And" In Place Of "&"
Post by: admin on September 07, 2015, 12:11:29 PM

I don't see a problem with it. But, as Mark suggested, maybe a search in one of the databases will help. I did a quick Google search using "television shows with ampersand" sand found this page with examples to use:

http://www.cleveland.com/tv-blog/index.ssf/2013/06/tnt_is_exploding_with_ampersand_titles_from_franklin_bash_to_new_drama_king_maxwell.html (http://www.cleveland.com/tv-blog/index.ssf/2013/06/tnt_is_exploding_with_ampersand_titles_from_franklin_bash_to_new_drama_king_maxwell.html)

So I looked up WILLANDGRACE and found:

http://www.cruciverb.com/data.php?op=showpuzzle&puzzle_id=12451 (http://www.cruciverb.com/data.php?op=showpuzzle&puzzle_id=12451)  (NYT)

For KATEANDALLIE:

http://www.cruciverb.com/data.php?op=showpuzzle&puzzle_id=1053   (NYT)


-Kevin

Title: Re: Substituting The Word "And" In Place Of "&"
Post by: Thomps2525 on September 07, 2015, 03:45:37 PM

For names of duos, trios and music groups, record labels almost always use the ampersand instead of the word "and." Examples: Sonny & Cher, Paul & Paula, James & Bobby Purify, Hootie & the Blowfish, Booker T & the MG's, Sly & the Family Stone. That is also the way those names appear in the Billboard music charts. However, there were many exceptions in the 1940s and '50s. e.g., Ferrante and Teicher, Dion and the Belmonts, Rosie and the Originals, Glenn Miller and His Orchestra, Nelson Riddle and His Orchestra.

Some groups avoid both the "and" and the ampersand, such as Guns N' Roses, Sniff 'N' the Tears, and Mike + the Mechanics...and one 1990s dance group has been known variously as C+C Music Factory, C + C Music Factory and C & C Music Factory. Such indecision!

Title: Re: Substituting The Word "And" In Place Of "&"
Post by: sobbybobo on September 09, 2015, 05:39:04 PM

Quote from: mmcbs on September 07, 2015, 10:50:24 AM

If the & is part of a proper name, probably not advisable to use AND in it's place in the grid. Check the databases (here and on crosswordtracker.com to see what's been used, when, and by whom for more authoritative guidance.

Thanks for your response.

What are you constituting a proper name?

Both KATEANDALLIE/WILLANDGRACE use ampersands in their official titles, yet the "AND" is substituted in the NYT puzzles with no factual errata reported by the editor.

Are they what you are referring to as proper names, or was it more like names of products?

Title: Re: Substituting The Word "And" In Place Of "&"
Post by: sobbybobo on September 09, 2015, 05:44:17 PM

Quote from: admin on September 07, 2015, 12:11:29 PM

I don't see a problem with it. But, as Mark suggested, maybe a search in one of the databases will help. I did a quick Google search using "television shows with ampersand" sand found this page with examples to use:

http://www.cleveland.com/tv-blog/index.ssf/2013/06/tnt_is_exploding_with_ampersand_titles_from_franklin_bash_to_new_drama_king_maxwell.html (http://www.cleveland.com/tv-blog/index.ssf/2013/06/tnt_is_exploding_with_ampersand_titles_from_franklin_bash_to_new_drama_king_maxwell.html)

So I looked up WILLANDGRACE and found:

http://www.cruciverb.com/data.php?op=showpuzzle&puzzle_id=12451 (http://www.cruciverb.com/data.php?op=showpuzzle&puzzle_id=12451)  (NYT)

For KATEANDALLIE:

http://www.cruciverb.com/data.php?op=showpuzzle&puzzle_id=1053   (NYT)


-Kevin

Thanks for the links.

How did you retrieve the results for the last two links (W&G/K&A)?

Title: Re: Substituting The Word "And" In Place Of "&"
Post by: sobbybobo on September 09, 2015, 05:48:04 PM

Quote from: Thomps2525 on September 07, 2015, 03:45:37 PM

For names of duos, trios and music groups, record labels almost always use the ampersand instead of the word "and." Examples: Sonny & Cher, Paul & Paula, James & Bobby Purify, Hootie & the Blowfish, Booker T & the MG's, Sly & the Family Stone. That is also the way those names appear in the Billboard music charts. However, there were many exceptions in the 1940s and '50s. e.g., Ferrante and Teicher, Dion and the Belmonts, Rosie and the Originals, Glenn Miller and His Orchestra, Nelson Riddle and His Orchestra.

Some groups avoid both the "and" and the ampersand, such as Guns N' Roses, Sniff 'N' the Tears, and Mike + the Mechanics...and one 1990s dance group has been known variously as C+C Music Factory, C + C Music Factory and C & C Music Factory. Such indecision!

...and such nice factual information & observations + thanks for sharing too!